[Lutecium-group] Lutecium-group Digest, Vol 25, Issue 43
kika
mariadsouza at terra.com.br
Fri Dec 29 18:06:00 GMT 2006
que le temps est la première castration... tu n'as qu'à y penser et tu
verras... temps, mort ne te font pas à penser à la castration car ce n'est
pas de l'ordre du pénis, peut-être.
et c'est pour cela que je crois comprendre que Aline et moi te semblent
beaucoup plus provocatrices.
quant à l'ordre du sinthome, je veux bien laisser clair que c'est le
discours de la science et du scientifique qui l'abhorre.
enfin, quand tu dis "bien à vous" je te remercie de la politesse de la
formule, mais je ne veux pas que tu m'appartiennes. et tu peux analyser ce
que tu veux, ça t'appartiens.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Denis Tabellion" <d.tabellion at aliceadsl.fr>
To: <lutecium-group at lutecium.org>
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Lutecium-group] Lutecium-group Digest, Vol 25, Issue 43
lutecium-group: Document interne au Groupe de Travail Lutecium.
Ne doit pas etre diffuse hors du groupe.
---
lutecium-group-request at lutecium.org a écrit :
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>
> 1. Re: Lutecium-group Digest, Vol 25, Issue 41 (kika)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 10:55:09 -0200
> From: "kika" <mariadsouza at terra.com.br>
> Subject: Re: [Lutecium-group] Lutecium-group Digest, Vol 25, Issue 41
> To: "Groupe de travail pour la psychanalyse lacanienne"
> <lutecium-group at lutecium.org>
> Message-ID: <001501c72b48$b4a684c0$8d00fea9 at all.com.br>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Denis, te rappelles-tu comment ? commencer cette "discussion"? et bien, je
> me permets de reprendre un peu le "fil de l'histoire"... Franz grognait
car
> personne ne r?pondait ? ces "provocations"... voil?, c'est tout, car il se
> donne la peine de provoquer des gens qui sont des professionnels de
> l'?coute... c'est toujours un bon entrainnement, m?me s'il y a des moments
> un plus "aigus" comme Yann le prouve.
>
> en tout cas, s'ils ont quelque chose ? dire, qu'ils le disent, mais nous
> savons maintenant qu'il y a l? beacoup plus de sinthome que tout autre
> chose. d'acc?
>
> et si ce qu'ils disent te plait, et bien bon app?tit, car c'est ?a le
> plus-jouir: "tout ce qu'on a ? mettrre sous la dent". ? moi ?a me fait
> chier, je trouve pauvre et totalment d?pass?. et en plus on se demande
s'ils
> ont jamais lu Lacan. alors je sens qu'il me fait prendre mon temps car je
ne
> suis pas psychanalyste et ce qu'il dit ne m'int?resse pas du tout: le
temps
> est la premi?re castration, non?
>
> enfin ? tous une tr?s bonne nouvelle ann?e!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Denis Tabellion" <d.tabellion at aliceadsl.fr>
> To: <lutecium-group at lutecium.org>
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [Lutecium-group] Lutecium-group Digest, Vol 25, Issue 41
>
>
> lutecium-group: Document interne au Groupe de Travail Lutecium.
> Ne doit pas etre diffuse hors du groupe.
> ---
> lutecium-group-request at lutecium.org a ?crit :
>
>> Send Lutecium-group mailing list submissions to
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Lutecium-group Digest, Vol 25, Issue 38
>> (aline.dubois-dugrenot)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 10:37:19 +0100
>> From: "aline\.dubois-dugrenot" <aline.dubois-dugrenot at laposte.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Lutecium-group] Lutecium-group Digest, Vol 25, Issue 38
>> To: "lutecium-group" <lutecium-group at lutecium.org>
>> Message-ID: <JB1427$54CCB3FF7B0B4299BBC2735860537B5D at laposte.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> Cher M. Tassigny,
>> Nous sommes sensibles ? vos efforts pour ?largir nos vues ?triqu?es sur
la
>>
> psychanalyse et donner enfin ? notre pratique une v?ritable envergure
> moderne. Mais nous sommes plusieurs ? penser que l'?nergie que vous
d?ployez
> serait mieux accueillie sur une autre liste de discussion. Pourriez-vous
> prendre cette demande en consid?ration ?
>
>> Avec nos remerciements anticip?s et cordiaux,
>>
>> Aline Dubois-Dugrenot
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> lutecium-group: Document interne au Groupe de Travail Lutecium.
>>> Ne doit pas etre diffuse hors du groupe.
>>> ---
>>> Bonsoir,
>>>
>>> je me permets de vous rappeler mon objectif :
>>>
>>>
>>> Le Coll?ge d'Analyse La?que a pour vocation ? la fois la mise en place
>>>
> d'un
>
>>> outil de travail pour les analystes (et non-analystes) en formation et
le
>>> retour ? la pratique et aux interrogations n?es de cette pratique pour
>>>
> tous
>
>>> les praticiens de l 'analyse, dont la formation n'est d'ailleurs jamais
>>> achev?e. Source : http://users.swing.be/sw271551/accueil.html
>>>
>>> ainsi que mon manifeste :
>>>
>>> Ne pr?tendons plus ? la neutralit?, mais tenons compte de l'efficace
>>> psychanalytique et de sa r?sistance, de ses sp?culations et stratag?mes,
>>> interpellons de fa?on critique, ouvrons des br?ches : c'est oeuvrer ? la
>>> psychanalyse .
>>>
>>> Faut-il encore soumettre le discours psychanalytique ? la rigueur de la
>>> preuve, aux cha?nes de la cons?quence, aux contraintes internes du
>>> collectif ? Faut-il toujours articuler, et, surtout, ne plus ignorer ce
>>>
> que
>
>>> certains voudraient laisser tomber ou r?duire sous les dogmes de
diverses
>>> chapelles ? Faut-il enfin d?terminer la sp?cificit? de l'apr?s-coup
>>> psychanalytique et de ce qu'elle arraisonne ?
>>>
>>> Que propose-t-on ? la psychanalyse alors que nous vivons dans un espace
>>> pluridisciplinaire, global o? toutes les valeurs pr?fabriqu?es
>>>
> normalisent
>
>>> banalisent l'?tre ? O? des revues, articles, de tout poil, semblent,
plus
>>> qu'informer, nous rendre un amalgame de savoirs qui donnent une
>>>
> impression
>
>>> de fadeur, lorsque rivalisant de diagrammes abscons, ils font la
>>>
> statistique
>
>>> de leur propre m?diocrit? telle un "semblant" juste bon ? d?composer,
>>> fragmenter, un tout qui ne sera donc jamais compris exhaustivement.
>>>
>>> Jamais l'enseignement de la psychanalyse n'a fait de la psychanalyse une
>>> recherche "limit?e corporativement en en une weltanschaung r?serv?e aux
>>> seuls initi?s". Initi?s de l'h?ritage freudien, lacanien, etc.
>>>
>>> Tous les membres du collectif, responsables, intervenants, contribuent ?
>>> ?lever la psychanalyse en un espace sp?culatif, telle une recherche
>>> fondamentale. On n'y apprend ni des syst?mes, ni des cultes, on y re?oit
>>>
> un
>
>>> ?veil de la pens?e d?passant les limites de la psychanalyse pure pour se
>>> tourner vers l'ethnologie ? l'exemple de Frazer ou de Malinowski et dans
>>>
> ce
>
>>> pluralisme se d?gagent des id?es non-dirigistes, des non-certitudes en
>>> quelque sorte.
>>>
>>> Jamais cette recherche ne prendra matrice dans une quelconque
>>>
> corporation,
>
>>> guilde, d?fendant ses droits et privil?ges plut?t que la pertinence de
>>>
> ses
>
>>> doutes. Cet enseignement ne se d?veloppera pas ? l'encontre d'autres
>>>
> ?coles.
>
>>> Telle serait la seule fa?on de renouer avec la pens?e freudienne.
Renouer
>>> avec ces passeurs ne consiste pas ? enseigner la psychanalyse, ni m?me ?
>>> pr?tendre ? r?inventer la psychanalyse, mais ? penser, r?fl?chir, ? un
>>> ?l?ment m?me irrationnel au collectif, quitte ? d?construire pour
ensuite
>>> mieux reb?tir, ce qui est vrai pour un est diff?rent pour l'autre.
>>>
>>> Bien s?r, c'est l'?tude des textes qui sera la pierre angulaire du
>>>
> "Comment
>
>>> savoir poser un probl?me" et ? lui donner une solution argument?e,
>>> raisonn?e, en ?vitant toutefois d'?tre trop conceptuelle.
>>>
>>> Que proposera-t-on ? ces enseignants ? Avant tout une m?thode car cet
>>> enseignement n'est pas une entreprise de formation o? le collectif
>>> accouchera d'apprentis sorciers.
>>>
>>> Le professeur de psychanalyse commencera la lecture d'une oeuvre
>>>
> freudienne.
>
>>> Mais renouer avec l'h?ritage freudien ne reviendra pas ? se prendre
>>>
> soi-m?me
>
>>> pour cette figure originaire de la pens?e psychanalytique, mais ?
devenir
>>>
> ce
>
>>> passeur d'id?es consistant ? comprendre et ? faire comprendre leur
>>>
> travers?e
>
>>> ? ce si?cle tumultueux.
>>>
>>> Vous voyez que je ne cache strictement rien (Kika) et que bien souvent
>>>
> c'est
>
>>> gr?ce ? une recherche quotidienne que j'essaie de pr?senter au groupe
>>> "Lut?cium" des ?l?ments quelque fois issus de ruptures de divers groupes
>>>
> ou
>
>>> originaux et in?dits et cela affin d'enrichir un d?bat qui ? mon humble
>>> avis doit d?passer le cadre de mon espace relationnel et professionnel.
>>>
> Je
>
>>> crois qu'un lieu de parole peut ?tre ?galement fertile si il est le
>>> compl?ment d'une cure, que des questions des interrogations laiss?es
>>> ouvertes lors de la dite cure doivent trouver une ?coute sur cette
liste.
>>>
>>> cordial
>>> ft
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 28/12/06, lutecium-group-request at lutecium.org <
>>> lutecium-group-request at lutecium.org> a ?crit :
>>>
>>>
>>>> Send Lutecium-group mailing list submissions to
>>>> lutecium-group at lutecium.org
>>>>
>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>>
>>>>
> http://cerium.lutecium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lutecium-group
>
>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>> lutecium-group-request at lutecium.org
>>>>
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>> lutecium-group-owner at lutecium.org
>>>>
>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>> than "Re: Contents of Lutecium-group digest..."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Re: Lutecium-group Digest, Vol 25, Issue 36
>>>> (Natalia Milopolsky-Costiou)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 04:41:30 -0500
>>>> From: "Natalia Milopolsky-Costiou" <sirano at iname.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Lutecium-group] Lutecium-group Digest, Vol 25, Issue 36
>>>> To: maldoro at ifrance.com, "Groupe de travail pour la psychanalyse
>>>> lacanienne" <lutecium-group at lutecium.org>
>>>> Message-ID: <20061228094130.E266B1158CD at ws1-7.us4.outblaze.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>>
>>>> Cher Frans,
>>>>
>>>> Avec tout mon respect pour les engag?s r?unis par la m?me conviction,
je
>>>> me m?fie des unions n?es ? partir de l?opposition aux autres unions. Ca
>>>> risque toujours de d?gringoler d?une mani?re ? la Orwell. Il n?est pas
>>>> pour rien que les individus se regroupent : ? je me trouve une famille
>>>> d?adoption car la mienne m?a rejet?e. ? Pourvu qu?on continue de b?tir
>>>> les murs et prot?ger ? tout prix son herm?tisme, on ne sortira jamais
de
>>>> cette angoisse li?e du traumatisme de viol, et cela influence, d?apr?s
>>>> mes observations ? l?ext?rieur de mon cabinet, consid?rablement la
>>>> qualit? de la pratique clinique. Nous n?avons pas besoin de faire la
>>>> guerre pour profiter de nos d?couverts respectifs. Par exemple, c?est
>>>> connu pour beaucoup d?entre nous que la plupart des TCC n?apportent que
>>>> l?effet temporaire, ce qui n?emp?che pas de leur r?server une belle
>>>>
> place
>
>>>> de r?ussite dans certains cas. Ce n?est pas un secret non plus que la
>>>> psychanalyse, elle aussi, conna?t des ?checs, ce qui n?enl?ve pas la
>>>> moindre goutte de joie dans les cas contraires. Personnellement, les
>>>> discussions avec les neurologues, biochimistes et psychiatres
>>>> investissent ?norm?ment dans mes r?flexions professionnelles, et vis
>>>> versa, selon eux. La psychanalyse personnelle bien aboutie doit
>>>>
> justement
>
>>>> permettre, ? mon sens, de se d?barrasser d?hyper protection que procure
>>>> la position d?un ? proph?te de sa patrie. ?
>>>>
>>>> Par contre, si votre pratique en profite ? tant mieux, et tout cela n?a
>>>> aucune importance J
>>>>
>>>> Cordialement,
>>>>
>>>> Natalia
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Frans Tassigny"
>>>> To: lutecium-group at lutecium.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Lutecium-group] Lutecium-group Digest, Vol 25, Issue 36
>>>> Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 11:50:41 +0100
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> lutecium-group: Document interne au Groupe de Travail Lutecium.
>>>> Ne doit pas etre diffuse hors du groupe.
>>>> ---
>>>> ch?re amie,
>>>>
>>>> Vous me me r?pondez pas sur le fond de mon texte mais vous
>>>> l'interpr?tez
>>>> comme si je menait cette qu?te en solitaire, s?rement pas, je me fais
>>>> au
>>>> contraire l'?cho d'une multitude d'analysants, il y a bel et bien une
>>>> commande sociale pour une psychanalyse plurielle hors des castes
>>>> pr??tablies, c'est d'ailleurs le succ?s des TTC( au d?triment de la
>>>> psychanalyse ferm?e..),
>>>>
>>>> Voici un exemple concret d'avanc?es plurielles :
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> UNEFPE est une association loi 1901 d'analysants accomplissant leur
>>>> cure
>>>> avec un m?me analyste. En exp?rience depuis 1985 elle compl?te le
>>>> concept du
>>>> transfert avec l'?l?ment de son rassemblement en commun. Elle marque
>>>> dans
>>>> l'histoire de la psychanalyse la phase d'?volution de la m?thode
>>>> freudienne
>>>> qui int?gre la psychologie collective
>>>>
>>>> UNE Fonction Psychanalytique, Association dite UNEFPE, apr?s avoir
>>>> form? la
>>>> technique de psychanalyse plurielle et portant au service des groupes
>>>> le
>>>> fruit des travaux poursuivis depuis Freud sur le psychisme,
>>>> pr?sentera son
>>>> activit? au Forum R?gional des Associations ? Lyon les 14, 15 & 16
>>>> Janvier
>>>> 1989. Elle intitule sa manifestation:
>>>>
>>>> vou pouvez y lire la suite sur :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>
http://nfrance.com/~eq12866/miroir/2004/200400605154100_UNEFPE_PLurielANalyt
> ique.htm
>
>>>> cordial
>>>> ft
>>>> *
>>>> Le 26/12/06, lutecium-group-request at lutecium.org <
>>>> lutecium-group-request at lutecium.org> a ?crit :
>>>> >
>>>> > Send Lutecium-group mailing list submissions to
>>>> > lutecium-group at lutecium.org
>>>> >
>>>> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>> > http://cerium.lutecium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lutecium-group
>>>> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>> > lutecium-group-request at lutecium.org
>>>> >
>>>> > You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>> > lutecium-group-owner at lutecium.org
>>>> >
>>>> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>> > than "Re: Contents of Lutecium-group digest..."
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Today's Topics:
>>>> >
>>>> > 1. fake (jp.bienvenu at wanadoo.fr)
>>>> > 2. Re: Lutecium-group Digest, Vol 25, Issue 34
>>>> > (Natalia Milopolsky-Costiou)
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>>>> >
>>>> > Message: 1
>>>> > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 10:47:59 -0300
>>>> > From: jp.bienvenu at wanadoo.fr
>>>> > Subject: [Lutecium-group] fake
>>>> > To: lutecium-group at lutecium.org
>>>> > Message-ID:
>>>> >
>>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>> >
>>>> > something is going wrong
>>>> >
>>>> > ------------------------------
>>>> >
>>>> > Message: 2
>>>> > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 09:39:13 -0500
>>>> > From: "Natalia Milopolsky-Costiou"
>>>> > Subject: Re: [Lutecium-group] Lutecium-group Digest, Vol 25, Issue
>>>> 34
>>>> > To: maldoro at ifrance.com, "Groupe de travail pour la psychanalyse
>>>> > lacanienne"
>>>> > Message-ID: <20061226143913.B2C091F50B1 at ws1-2.us4.outblaze.com>
>>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > A very inspiring speech, Frans, thank you for it.?
>>>> >
>>>> > Une des particularit?s de cette attirance des textes de Lacan en
>>>> Anglais
>>>> > (comme dans pas mal d?autres langues) c?est que les Anglais ne
>>>> parleraient
>>>> > justement pas comme cela. Le discours psychanalytique britannique
>>>> (ou encore
>>>> > irlandais) est compl?tement ailleurs ainsi que tous ce que vient
>>>> avec et ce
>>>> > que l?inspire. C?est pour cette raison entre autres que votre lutte
>>>> contre
>>>> > l?herm?tisme psychanalytique reste si solitaire?: tant que
>>>> ??l??lite??
>>>> > existe, il y aura toujours ceux qui voudront y acc?der, n?est-ce
>>>> pas?? Voil?
>>>> > pourquoi beaucoup (je crois) entre nous s?occupons des mis en sc?ne
>>>> de leur
>>>> > pratique plut?t que des barricades et restent donc dans leurs
>>>> cabinets.
>>>> > Apr?s tout, ils sont beaux, nos cabinets, tandis que dehors il fait
>>>> souvent
>>>> > froid?
>>>> >
>>>> > A ce propos, je vous souhaite une tr?s belle f?te de
>>>> calendrier?:-))
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Natalia
>>>> >
>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > From: "Frans Tassigny"
>>>> > To: lutecium-group at lutecium.org
>>>> > Subject: Re: [Lutecium-group] Lutecium-group Digest, Vol 25, Issue
>>>> 34
>>>> > Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2006 21:36:10 +0100
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > lutecium-group: Document interne au Groupe de Travail Lutecium.
>>>> > Ne doit pas etre diffuse hors du groupe.
>>>> > ---
>>>> > bonjour,
>>>> >
>>>> > Cette version en anglais a ?galement pour but de vous pr?senter le
>>>> site US
>>>> > qui l'?dite, je re?ois r?guli?rement leur nouveaut?s et je trouve
>>>> que
>>>> > leurs
>>>> > info sont r?solument diff?rentes que celles publi?es en Europe....
>>>> >
>>>> > Si vous d?sirez plus en savoir voyez :
>>>> > http://www.lacan.com/ericlaurent.html
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Par ailleurs , voyez : PLoS est une organisation ? but non lucratif
>>>> des
>>>> > scientifiques et des m?decins commis ? rendre le monde litt?rature
>>>> > scientifique et m?dicale une ressource publique librement
>>>> disponible.
>>>> > Toutes
>>>> > nos activit?s sont guid?es par nos principes de
>>>> > noyau
>>>> > .
>>>> >
>>>> > [image: OUVRIR L'ACCESS]Ouvrir l'Access : Tout que nous ?ditons est
>>>> > librement accessible en ligne pour que vous lisiez, pour t?l?
>>>> chargez,
>>>> > copier, distribuer, et employer (avec l'attribution) n'importe
>>>> quelle
>>>> > mani?re vous souhaitez.
>>>> >
>>>> > Je crois qu'? l'heure o? la psychanalyse doit s'ouvrir vers les
>>>> > neurosciences on ne peut plus se contenter de lire Freud uniquement
>>>> (ou
>>>> > Lacan), des organisations telles http://www.plos.org/oa/index.html
>>>> sont
>>>> > maintenant les nouveaux moteurs du savoir et de la connaissance.
>>>> J'y
>>>> > participe activement , j'ai dirig? un mega site produit par l'Open
>>>> access
>>>> > financ? par G.Soros cela m'a valu de travaillez avec mobynuke et
>>>> post
>>>> > nunke,
>>>> > le sites que j'ai transform? en e-zine ont re?u une grande
>>>> affluence.
>>>> > C'est
>>>> > donc dans la volont? de continuer sur blog cette philosophie de la
>>>> > gratuit?
>>>> > du savoir qu'il faudrait inscrire dans les groupes de
>>>> psychanalystes.
>>>> >
>>>> > FINI LES CHAPELLES DE X Y Z ne r?duisons plus la psychanalyse au
>>>> plaisir
>>>> > d'une ?lite, il faut r?solument se diriger vers une ouverture sans
>>>> bien
>>>> > sur
>>>> > pour cela perdre sa sp?cificit?.
>>>> >
>>>> > cordial
>>>> > Frans Tassigny
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fr&sl=en&u=http://www.plos.org/&sa=
>
X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DPLoS%26hl%3Dfr%26lr%3D%
> 26sa%3DG
>
>>>> > 2006/12/25, ecium.org :
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Send Lutecium-group mailing list submissions to
>>>> > > lutecium-group at lutecium.org
>>>> > >
>>>> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>> > >
>>>> http://cerium.lutecium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lutecium-group
>>>> > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>> > > lutecium-group-request at lutecium.org
>>>> > >
>>>> > > You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>> > > lutecium-group-owner at lutecium.org
>>>> > >
>>>> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
>>>> specific
>>>> > > than "Re: Contents of Lutecium-group digest..."
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Today's Topics:
>>>> > >
>>>> > > 1. Re: la suture de J.A Miller ver anglophone (kika)
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Message: 1
>>>> > > Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2006 17:05:54 -0200
>>>> > > From: "kika"
>>>> > > Subject: Re: [Lutecium-group] la suture de J.A Miller ver
>>>> anglophone
>>>> > > To: "Groupe de travail pour la psychanalyse lacanienne"
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Message-ID: <000c01c72857$badf2340$8d00fea9 at all.com.br>
>>>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Franz, je m'excuse mais je n'ai pas compris... pourquoi une
>>>> version en
>>>> > > anglais?
>>>> > >
>>>> > > en tout cas, tout le monde peut avoir son interpr?tation propre
>>>> de
>>>> > Lacan.
>>>> > > et
>>>> > > on peut discuter sa validit? ou non. mais c'est toujours une
>>>> > > interpr?tation,
>>>> > > il ya toujours l'inconscient qui ?tablit les sentiers du su-je.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > et je reprends l? des mots parus dans Quarto (Suppl?ment belge ?
>>>> La
>>>> > lettre
>>>> > > mensuelle de l'?cole de la cause freudienne), en 1981: "Ce que
>>>> notre
>>>> > > pratique r?v?le, nous r?v?le, c'est que le savoir, savoir
>>>> inconscient a
>>>> > un
>>>> > > rapport avec l'amour." J.Lacan
>>>> > >
>>>> > > et il y aurait dans Ornicar? 9 le suivant dialogue entre Miller e
>>>> Lacan
>>>> > > qui
>>>> > > me parait montrer un peu comment op?re ce su-je propre ? chacun
>>>> des
>>>> > deux:
>>>> > >
>>>> > > "J.-A. M. - Ce serait ? montrer.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > J. L. - Ce serait s?rement ? montrer, c'est vrai, mais je ne le
>>>> > montrerai
>>>> > > pas ce soir."
>>>> > >
>>>> > > alors les ?crits de Miller o? qui que ce soit serviraient juste
>>>> pour
>>>> > nous
>>>> > > faire apprendre que pense-t-il ? partir de son v?cu et sa
>>>> compr?hension
>>>> > de
>>>> > > Lacan. c'est valable, c'est int?ressant, mais ?tre l'au-moins un
>>>> ? le
>>>> > lire
>>>> > > ce n'est pas ?tre Dieu. et c'est ?a ce que je lui reproche.
>>>> personne n'a
>>>> > > le
>>>> > > droit de "syst?matiser", voire asseptiser Lacan, sauf si cel? est
>>>> fait
>>>> > > explicitement.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > > From: "Frans Tassigny"
>>>> > > To: "lutecium-group"
>>>> > > Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 9:19 AM
>>>> > > Subject: [Lutecium-group] la suture de J.A Miller ver anglophone
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > lutecium-group: Document interne au Groupe de Travail Lutecium.
>>>> > > Ne doit pas etre diffuse hors du groupe.
>>>> > > ---
>>>> > > No-one without those precise conceptions of analysis which only a
>>>> > personal
>>>> > > analysis can provide has any right to concern himself (or
>>>> herself) with
>>>> > > it.
>>>> > > Ladies and Gentlemen, doubtless you fully con- form to the
>>>> strength of
>>>> > > that
>>>> > > ruling by Freud in the *New Introductory Lectures*.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Thus, articulated as a dilemma, a question raises itself foe me
>>>> in your
>>>> > > regard.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > If, contravening this injunction, it is of psychoanalysis that I
>>>> am
>>>> > going
>>>> > > to
>>>> > > speak, - then. by listening to someone whom you know to be
>>>> incapable of
>>>> > > producing the credentials which alone would authorize your
>>>> assent, what
>>>> > > are
>>>> > > you doing here?
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Or. if my subject is not psychoanalysis. - then you who so faith-
>>>> fully
>>>> > > attend here in order to become conversant with the problems which
>>>> relate
>>>> > > to
>>>> > > the Freudian field, what are you doing here!
>>>> > >
>>>> > > And you above all. Ladies and Gentlemen the analysts, what arc
>>>> you doing
>>>> > > here. you to whom Freud specifically addressed the warning not to
>>>> rely
>>>> > on
>>>> > > those who are not confirmed in the practice of your science, on
>>>> those
>>>> > > so-called authorities, those literary intellectuals, who bring
>>>> their
>>>> > soup
>>>> > > to
>>>> > > warm at your fire, without so much as recognizing your
>>>> hospitality? Even
>>>> > > if
>>>> > > he who reigns in your kitchens as head-chef could amuse himself
>>>> by
>>>> > letting
>>>> > > someone lower than the lowest kitchen boy get hold of the pot
>>>> with which
>>>> > > you
>>>> > > are so naturally concerned since it is from it that you draw your
>>>> > > sustenance, it was still uncertain - and I confess that I myself
>>>> doubted
>>>> > -
>>>> > > that you would be ready to drink in a soup merely cooked up in
>>>> that way.
>>>> > > And
>>>> > > yet you are here. Permit me to marvel a moment at your presence,
>>>> and at
>>>> > > the
>>>> > > privilege of your having lent me for a while that most precious
>>>> of the
>>>> > > organs at your disposal, your ear.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Which I must now attempt to justify to it, and with reasons which
>>>> are at
>>>> > > least admissible.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I will not keep you waiting. The justification lies in this,
>>>> which will
>>>> > > come
>>>> > > as no surprise after the developments which have so enchanted
>>>> your
>>>> > hearing
>>>> > > at this seminar since the start of the academic year, that the
>>>> Freudian
>>>> > > field is not representable as a closed surface. The opening up of
>>>> > > psychoanalysis is not the effect of the liberalism, the whim. the
>>>> > > blindness
>>>> > > even of he who has set himself as its guardian. For. if not being
>>>> > situated
>>>> > > on the inside does not relegate you to the outside, it is because
>>>> at a
>>>> > > certain point, excluded from a two-dimensional topology, the two
>>>> > surfaces
>>>> > > join up and the periphery or outer edge crosses over the
>>>> > circumscription.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > That I can recognize and occupy that point is what releases you
>>>> from the
>>>> > > dilemma I presented to you. and entitles you to be listening to
>>>> me
>>>> > to-day.
>>>> > > Which will enable you to grasp. Ladies and Gentlemen, to what
>>>> extent you
>>>> > > arc
>>>> > > implicated in my undertaking and how far its successful outcome
>>>> concerns
>>>> > > you.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > *Concept of the Logic of the Signifier*
>>>> > >
>>>> > > What I am aiming to restore, piecing together indications
>>>> dispersed '
>>>> > > through the work of Jacques Lacan, is to be designated the logic
>>>> of the
>>>> > > signifier - it is a general logic in that its functioning is
>>>> formal in
>>>> > > relation to all fields of knowledge including that of
>>>> psychoanalysis
>>>> > > which,
>>>> > > in acquiring a specificity there, it governs; it is a minimal
>>>> logic in
>>>> > > that
>>>> > > within it are given those pieces only which arc necessary to
>>>> assure it a
>>>> > > progression reduced to a linear movement, uniformally generated
>>>> at each
>>>> > > point of its necessary sequence. That this logic should be called
>>>> the
>>>> > > logic
>>>> > > of the signifier avoids the partiality of the conception which
>>>> would
>>>> > limit
>>>> > > its validity to the field in which it was first produced as a
>>>> category;
>>>> > to
>>>> > > correct its linguistic declension is to prepare the way for its
>>>> > > importation
>>>> > > into other discourses, an importation which we will not fail to
>>>> carry
>>>> > out
>>>> > > once we have grasped its essentials here.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > The chief advantage to be gained from this process of
>>>> minimisation is
>>>> > the
>>>> > > greatest economy of conceptual expenditure, which is then in
>>>> danger of
>>>> > > obscuring to you that the conjunctions which it effects between
>>>> certain
>>>> > > functions are so essential that to neglect them is to compromise
>>>> > analytic
>>>> > > reasoning proper.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > By considering the relationship between this logic and that which
>>>> I will
>>>> > > call logician's logic, we see that its particularity lies in the
>>>> fact
>>>> > that
>>>> > > the first treats of the emergence of the second. and should be
>>>> conceived
>>>> > > of
>>>> > > as the logic of the origin of logic - which is to say, chat it
>>>> docs not
>>>> > > follow its laws, but that, prescribing their jurisdiction, itself
>>>> falls
>>>> > > outside that jurisdiction.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > This dimension of the archeological can be grasped most
>>>> succinctly
>>>> > through
>>>> > > a
>>>> > > movement back from the field of logic itself, where its
>>>> miscognition. at
>>>> > > its
>>>> > > most radical because closest to is recognition is effected.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > That this step repeats something of that which Derrida has shown
>>>> to be
>>>> > > exemplary to phenomenology
>>>> > > [1]will
>>>> > > conceal to none but the most hasty this crucial difference, that
>>>> here
>>>> > > miscognition finds its point of departure in the production of
>>>> meaning.
>>>> > We
>>>> > > can say that it is constituted not as a forgetting, but as a
>>>> repression.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > To designate it I choose the name of suture. Suture names the
>>>> relation
>>>> > of
>>>> > > the subject to the chain of its discourse; we shall see that it
>>>> figures
>>>> > > there as the clement which is lacking, in the form of a stand-in.
>>>> For,
>>>> > > while
>>>> > > there lacking, it is not purely and simply absent. Suture, by
>>>> extension
>>>> > -
>>>> > > the general relation of lack to the structure - of which it is an
>>>> > element,
>>>> > > inasmuch as it implies the position of a taking-the-place-of.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > It is the objective of this paper to articulate the concept of
>>>> suture
>>>> > > which,
>>>> > > if it is not named explicitly as such by Jacques Lacan. is
>>>> constantly
>>>> > > present in his system.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Let it be absolutely clear that it is not as philosopher or
>>>> > philosopher's
>>>> > > apprentice that I am speaking here - if the philosopher is as
>>>> > > characterized
>>>> > > by Heinrich Heine in a sentence quoted by Freud, "with his
>>>> nightcaps and
>>>> > > the
>>>> > > tatters of his dressing- gown. patching up the gaps in the
>>>> structure of
>>>> > > the
>>>> > > universe". But take care not to think that the function of
>>>> suturation is
>>>> > > peculiar to the philosopher: what is specific to the philosopher
>>>> is the
>>>> > > determination of the field in which he operates as a "universal
>>>> > > structure".
>>>> > > It is important that you realize that the logician, like the
>>>> linguist.
>>>> > > also
>>>> > > sutures at his particular level. And, quite as much. anyone who
>>>> says
>>>> > "I".
>>>> > >
>>>> > > In order to grasp suture we must cut across what a discourse
>>>> makes
>>>> > > explicit
>>>> > > of itself, and distinguish from its meaning, its letter. This
>>>> paper is
>>>> > > concerned with a letter - a dead letter. It should come as no
>>>> surprise
>>>> > if
>>>> > > the meaning then dies.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > The main thread of this analysis will be Gottlob Frege's argument
>>>> in
>>>> > > *Grundlagen
>>>> > > der Arithmetik*,
>>>> > > [2]crucial
>>>> > > here because it puts into question those terms which in Peano's
>>>> > > axiomatic, adequate for a construction of a theory of natural
>>>> numbers,
>>>> > are
>>>> > > taken as primary - that is. the zero, the number, the successor.
>>>> > > [3]This
>>>> > > calling into question of the theory, by disintricating, from the
>>>> > > axiomatic where the theory is consolidated, the suturing,
>>>> delivers up
>>>> > this
>>>> > > last.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > *The Zero and the One*
>>>> > >
>>>> > > - Here then is the question posed in its most general form;
>>>> > >
>>>> > > what is it that functions in the series of whole natural
>>>> > > numbers to which we can assign their progression?
>>>> > >
>>>> > > And the answer, which I shall give at once before establishing
>>>> it:
>>>> > >
>>>> > > in the process of the constitution of the series,
>>>> > > in the genesis of progression,
>>>> > > the function of the subjet, miscognized is operative.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > This proposition will certainly appear as a paradox to anyone who
>>>> knows
>>>> > > that
>>>> > > the logical discourse of Frege opens with the exclusion of that
>>>> which is
>>>> > > held by empiricist theory to be essential for the passage of the
>>>> thing
>>>> > to
>>>> > > the unit, and of the set of units to the unit of number: that is,
>>>> the
>>>> > > function of the subject, as support of the operations of
>>>> abstraction and
>>>> > > unification.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > For the unity which is thus assured both for the individual and
>>>> the set,
>>>> > > it
>>>> > > only holds in so far as the number functions as its name. Whence
>>>> > > originates
>>>> > > the ideology which makes of the subject the producer of fictions,
>>>> short
>>>> > of
>>>> > > recognizing it as the product of its product - an ideology in
>>>> which
>>>> > > logical
>>>> > > and psychological discourse are wedded, with political discourse
>>>> > occupying
>>>> > > the key position, which can be seen admitted in Occam, concealed
>>>> in
>>>> > Locke,
>>>> > > and miscognized thereafter.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > A subject therefore, defined by attributes whose other side is
>>>> > political,
>>>> > > disposing as of powers, of a faculty of memory necessary to close
>>>> the
>>>> > set
>>>> > > without the loss of any of the interchangeable elements, and a
>>>> faculty
>>>> > of
>>>> > > repetition which operates inductively. There is no doubt that it
>>>> is this
>>>> > > subject which Frege, setting himself from the start against the
>>>> > empiricist
>>>> > > foundation of arithmetic. excludes from the field in which the
>>>> concept
>>>> > of
>>>> > > the number is to appear.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > But if it is held that the subject is not reducible, in its most
>>>> > essential
>>>> > > function, to the psychological, then its exclusion from the field
>>>> of
>>>> > > number
>>>> > > is assimilable to repetition. Which is what I have to
>>>> demonstrate.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > You will be aware that Frege's discourse starts from the
>>>> fundamental
>>>> > > system
>>>> > > comprising the three concepts of the concept, the object and the
>>>> number,
>>>> > > and
>>>> > > two relations, that of the concept to the object, which is called
>>>> > > subsumption and that of the concept to the number which I will
>>>> call
>>>> > > assignation. A number is assigned to a concept which subsumes
>>>> objects.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > What is specifically logical about this system is that each
>>>> concept is
>>>> > > only
>>>> > > defined and exists solely through the relation which it maintains
>>>> as
>>>> > > subsumer with that which it subsumes. Similarly, an object only
>>>> has
>>>> > > existence in so far as it falls under a concept. there being no
>>>> other
>>>> > > determination involved in its logical existence, so that the
>>>> object
>>>> > takes
>>>> > > its meaning from its difference to the thing integrated, by its
>>>> > > spatio-temporal localization, to the real.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Whence you can see the disappearance of the thing which must be
>>>> effected
>>>> > > in
>>>> > > order for it to appear as object - which is the thing in so far
>>>> as it is
>>>> > > one,
>>>> > >
>>>> > > It is dear that the concept which operates in the system. formed
>>>> solely
>>>> > > through the determination of subsumption, is a redoubled concept:
>>>> the
>>>> > > concept of identity to a concept.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > This redoubling. induced in the concept by identity, engenders
>>>> the
>>>> > logical
>>>> > > dimension, because in effecting the disappearance of the thing it
>>>> gives
>>>> > > rise
>>>> > > to the emergence of the numerable.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > For example, if 1 group what falls under the concept "child of
>>>> Agamemnon
>>>> > > and
>>>> > > Cassandra", I summon in order to subsume them Pelops and
>>>> Teledamus. To
>>>> > > this
>>>> > > set I can only assign a number if I put into play the concept
>>>> 'identical
>>>> > > to
>>>> > > the concept: child of Agamemnon and Cassandra'. Through the
>>>> effect of
>>>> > the
>>>> > > fiction of (his concept, the children now intervene in so far as
>>>> each
>>>> > one
>>>> > > is. so to speak, applied to itself - which transforms it into a
>>>> unit,
>>>> > and
>>>> > > gives to it the status of an object which is numerable as such.
>>>> It is
>>>> > this
>>>> > > one of the singular unit. this one of identity of the subsumed,
>>>> which is
>>>> > > common to all numbers in so far as they are first constituted as
>>>> units.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > >From this can be deduced the definition of the assignation of
>>>> number:
>>>> > > according to Frege "the number assigned to the concept F is the
>>>> > extension
>>>> > > of
>>>> > > the concept identical to the concept F". Frege's ternary system
>>>> has as
>>>> > its
>>>> > > effect that all that is left to the thing is the support of its
>>>> identity
>>>> > > with itself, by which it is the object of the operative concept,
>>>> and
>>>> > hence
>>>> > > numerable.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > The process that I have just set out authorizes me to conclude
>>>> the
>>>> > > following
>>>> > > proposition, whose relevance will emerge later, - the unit which
>>>> could
>>>> > be
>>>> > > called unifying of the concept in so far as it is assigned by the
>>>> number
>>>> > > is
>>>> > > subordinate to the unit as distinctive in so far as it supports
>>>> the
>>>> > > number.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > As for the position of the distinctive unit. its foundation is to
>>>> be
>>>> > > situated in the function of identity which, conferring on each
>>>> thing of
>>>> > > the
>>>> > > world the property of being one. effects its transformation into
>>>> an
>>>> > object
>>>> > > of the (logical) concept.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > At this point in the construction, you will sense all the
>>>> importance of
>>>> > > the
>>>> > > definition of identity which I am going to present.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > This definition which must give its true meaning to the concept
>>>> of
>>>> > number,
>>>> > > must borrow nothing from it
>>>> > > [4]-
>>>> > > precisely in order to ^ engender numeration.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > _ This definition, which is pivotal to his system. Frege takes
>>>> from
>>>> > > Leibniz.
>>>> > > It is contained in this statement: *eadem sunt quorum unum potest
>>>> > > substitui
>>>> > > alteri salva veritate*. Those things are identical of which one
>>>> can be
>>>> > > substituted for the other *salva veritate* without loss of truth.
>>>> > > Doubtless
>>>> > > you can estimate the crucial importance of what is effected by
>>>> this
>>>> > > statement: the emergence of the function of truth. Yet what it
>>>> assumes
>>>> > is
>>>> > > more important than what it expresses. That is,
>>>> identity-with-itself.
>>>> > That
>>>> > > a
>>>> > > thing cannot be substituted for itself, then where does this
>>>> leave
>>>> > truth?
>>>> > > Absolute is its subversion.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > If we follow Leibniz's argument, the failing of truth whose
>>>> possibility
>>>> > is
>>>> > > opened up for an instant, its loss through the substitution for
>>>> one
>>>> > thins
>>>> > > of
>>>> > > another, would be followed by its immediate reconstitution in a
>>>> new
>>>> > > relation: truth is recovered because the substituted thing, in
>>>> that it
>>>> > is
>>>> > > identical with itself, can be the object of a judgement and enter
>>>> into
>>>> > the
>>>> > > order of discourse: identical with itself, it can be articulated.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > But that a thing should not be identical with itself subverts the
>>>> field
>>>> > of
>>>> > > truth, ruins it and abolishes it.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > You will grasp to what extent the preservation of truth is
>>>> implicated in
>>>> > > this identity with itself which connotes the passage from the
>>>> thing to
>>>> > the
>>>> > > object. Identity-with-itself is essential if truth is to be
>>>> saved.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Truth is. Each thing is identical with Itself.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Let us now put into operation Frege's schema, that is, go through
>>>> the
>>>> > > three-stage itinerary which he prescribes to us. Let there be a
>>>> thing X
>>>> > of
>>>> > > the world. Let there be the empirical concept of this X. The
>>>> concept
>>>> > which
>>>> > > finds a place in the schema is not this empirical concept but
>>>> that which
>>>> > > redoubles it, being "identical with the concept of X". The object
>>>> which
>>>> > > falls under this concept is X itself" as a unit. In this the
>>>> number,
>>>> > which
>>>> > > is the third term of the sequence, to be assigned to the concept
>>>> of X
>>>> > will
>>>> > > be the number 1. Which means that this function of the number 1
>>>> is
>>>> > > repetitive for all things of the world. It is in this sense that
>>>> this 1
>>>> > is
>>>> > > only the unit which constitutes the number as such. and not the 1
>>>> in its
>>>> > > personal identity as number with its own particular place and a
>>>> proper
>>>> > > name
>>>> > > in the series of numbers.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Furthermore, its construction demands that. in order to transform
>>>> it. we
>>>> > > call upon a thing of the world - which, according to Frege.
>>>> cannot be:
>>>> > the
>>>> > > logical must be sustained through nothing but itself.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > In order for the number to pass from the repetition of the 1 of
>>>> the
>>>> > > identical to that of its ordered succession, in order for the
>>>> logical
>>>> > > dimension to gain its autonomy definitively, without any
>>>> reference to
>>>> > the
>>>> > > real, the zero has to appear.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Which appearance is obtained because truth is. Zero is the
>>>> assigned to
>>>> > the
>>>> > > concept "not identical with itself". In effect, let there be the
>>>> concept
>>>> > > "not identical with itself". This concept, by virtue of being a
>>>> concept,
>>>> > > has
>>>> > > an extension, subsumes an object. Which object? None. Since truth
>>>> is, no
>>>> > > object falls into the place of the subsumed of this concept, and
>>>> the
>>>> > > number
>>>> > > which qualifies its extension is zero.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > In this engendering of the zero. I have stressed that it is sup-
>>>> ported
>>>> > by
>>>> > > the proposition that truth is. If no object falls under the
>>>> concept of
>>>> > > non-identical-with-itself. it is because truth must be saved. If
>>>> there
>>>> > are
>>>> > > no things which are not identical with them- selves, it is
>>>> because
>>>> > > non-identity with itself is contradictory to the very dimension
>>>> of
>>>> > truth.
>>>> > > To
>>>> > > its concept, we assign the zero. It is this decisive proposition
>>>> that
>>>> > the
>>>> > > concept of not-ldentical-with- itself is assigned by the number
>>>> zero
>>>> > which
>>>> > > sutures logical discourse.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > For, and here I am working across Frege's text. in the auto-
>>>> nomous
>>>> > > construction of the logical through itself, it has been
>>>> necessary, in
>>>> > > order
>>>> > > to exclude any reference to the real, to evoke on the level of
>>>> the
>>>> > concept
>>>> > > an object not-identical-with-itself - to be subsequently rejected
>>>> from
>>>> > the
>>>> > > dimension of truth.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > The zero which is inscribed in the place of the number con-
>>>> summates the
>>>> > > exclusion of this object. As for this place, marked out by
>>>> subsumption,
>>>> > in
>>>> > > which the object is lacking, there nothing can be written, and if
>>>> a o
>>>> > must
>>>> > > be traced, it is merely in order to figure a blank, to render
>>>> visible
>>>> > the
>>>> > > lack.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > >From the zero lack to the zero number, the non-conceptualisable
>>>> is
>>>> > > conceptualized.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Let us now set aside the zero lack in order to consider only that
>>>> which
>>>> > is
>>>> > > produced by the alternation of its evocation and its revocation,
>>>> the
>>>> > zero
>>>> > > number.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > The zero understood as a number, which assigns to the subsuming
>>>> concept
>>>> > > the
>>>> > > lack of an object, is as such a thing - the first non-real thing
>>>> in
>>>> > > thought.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > If of the number zero we construct the concept, it subsumes as
>>>> its sole
>>>> > > object the number zero. The number which assigns it is therefore
>>>> 1.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Frege's system works by the circulation of an element, at each of
>>>> the
>>>> > > places
>>>> > > it fixes: from the number zero to its concept, from this concept
>>>> to its
>>>> > > object and to its number - a circulation which produces the 1.
>>>> > > [5]This
>>>> > > system is thus so constituted with the o counting as 1. The
>>>> counting
>>>> > > of
>>>> > > the 0 as 1 (whereas the concept of, the zero subsumes nothing in
>>>> the
>>>> > real
>>>> > > but a blank) is the general support of the series of numbers.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > It is this which is demonstrated by Frege's analysis of the
>>>> operation of
>>>> > > the
>>>> > > successor, which consists of obtaining the number which follows n
>>>> by
>>>> > > adding
>>>> > > to it a unit: n' the successor of n, is equal to n + 1, that is,
>>>> ...
>>>> > n...
>>>> > > (n
>>>> > > + 1) = n'... Frege opens out the n + 1 in order to discover what
>>>> is
>>>> > > involved
>>>> > > in the passage from n to its successor.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > You will grasp the paradox of this engendering as soon as I
>>>> produce the
>>>> > > most
>>>> > > general formula for the successor which Frege arrives at: the
>>>> Number
>>>> > > assigned to the concept "member of the series of natural numbers
>>>> ending
>>>> > > with
>>>> > > n" follows in the series of natural numbers directly after n'.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Let us take a number. The number three. It will serve to
>>>> constitute the
>>>> > > concept "member of the series of natural numbers ending with
>>>> three". We
>>>> > > find
>>>> > > that the number assigned to this concept is four. Here then is
>>>> the 1 of
>>>> > n
>>>> > > +
>>>> > > 1. Where does it come from? Assigned to its redoubled concept,
>>>> the
>>>> > number
>>>> > > 3
>>>> > > functions as the unifying name of a set: as reserve. In the
>>>> concept of'
>>>> > > member of the series of natural numbers ending with 3", it is the
>>>> term
>>>> > (in
>>>> > > the sense both of element and of final element).
>>>> > >
>>>> > > In the order of the real. the 3 subsumes 3 objects. In the order
>>>> of
>>>> > > number,
>>>> > > which is that of discourse bound by truth, it is numbers which
>>>> are
>>>> > > counted:
>>>> > > before the 3, there are 3 numbers - it is therefore the fourth.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > In the order of number, there if an addition the 0 and the 0
>>>> counts for
>>>> > 1.
>>>> > > The displacement of a number, from the function of reserve to
>>>> that of
>>>> > > term,
>>>> > > implies the summation of the 0. Whence the successor. That which
>>>> in the
>>>> > > real
>>>> > > is pure and simple absence finds itself through the fact of
>>>> number
>>>> > > (through
>>>> > > the instance of truth) noted o and counted for 1.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Which is why we say the object not-identical with itself
>>>> > invoked-rejected
>>>> > > by
>>>> > > truth, instituted-annulled by discourse (subsumption as such) -
>>>> in a
>>>> > word,
>>>> > > sutured.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > The emergence of the lack as 0, and of 0 as 1 determines the
>>>> appearance
>>>> > of
>>>> > > the successor. Let there be n; the lack is fixed as which is
>>>> fixed as 1:
>>>> > n
>>>> > > +
>>>> > > 1; which is added in order to give n' - which absorbs the 1.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Certainly, if the Lot n + 1 is nothing other than the counting
>>>> the zero,
>>>> > > the
>>>> > > function of addition of the sign + is superfat1ory, and we must
>>>> restore
>>>> > to
>>>> > > the horizontal representation of the engendering its verticality:
>>>> the 1
>>>> > is
>>>> > > to be taken as the primary symbol of the emergence of lack in the
>>>> field
>>>> > of
>>>> > > truth, and the sign + indicates the crossing, the transgression
>>>> through
>>>> > > which the 0 lack comes to be represented as 1, producing, through
>>>> this
>>>> > > difference of n to n' which you have seen to be an effect of
>>>> meaning the
>>>> > > name of a number.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Logical representation collapses this three-level construction.
>>>> The
>>>> > > operation I have effected opens it out. If you consider the
>>>> opposition
>>>> > of
>>>> > > these two axes, you will understand what is at stake in logical
>>>> > suturing,
>>>> > > and the difference of the logic which I am putting forward to
>>>> logician's
>>>> > > logic.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > That zero is a number: such is the proposition which assures
>>>> logical
>>>> > > dimension of its closure.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Our purpose has been to recognize in the zero number the suturing
>>>> > stand-in
>>>> > > for the lack.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Remember here the hesitation perpetuated in the work of Bertand
>>>> Russell
>>>> > > concerning its localization (interior? or exterior to the series
>>>> of
>>>> > > numbers?).
>>>> > >
>>>> > > The generating repetition of the series of numbers is sustained
>>>> by this,
>>>> > > that the zero lack passes, first along a vertical axis, across
>>>> the bar
>>>> > > which
>>>> > > limits the field of truth in order to be represented there as
>>>> one,
>>>> > > subsequently cancelling out as meaning in each of the names of
>>>> the
>>>> > numbers
>>>> > > which are caught up in the metonymic chain of successional
>>>> progression.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Just as the zero as lack of the contradictory object must be
>>>> > distinguished
>>>> > > from that which sutures this absence in the series of numbers, so
>>>> the 1.
>>>> > > as
>>>> > > the proper name of a number, is to be distinguished from that
>>>> which
>>>> > comes
>>>> > > to
>>>> > > fix in a trait the zero of the not-identical with itself sutured
>>>> by the
>>>> > > identity with itself, which is the law of discourse in the field
>>>> of
>>>> > truth.
>>>> > > The central paradox to be grasped (which as you will see in a
>>>> moment is
>>>> > > the
>>>> > > paradox of the signifier in the sense of Lacan) is that the trait
>>>> of the
>>>> > > identical represents the non-identical, whence is deduced the
>>>> > > impossibility
>>>> > > of its redoubling,
>>>> > > [6]and from
>>>> > > that impossibility the structure of repetition, as the process of
>>>> > > differentiation of the identical.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Now, if the series of numbers, metonymy of the zero, begins with
>>>> its
>>>> > > metaphor, if the o member of the series as number is only the
>>>> > > standing-in-place suturing the absence (of the absolute zero)
>>>> which
>>>> > moves
>>>> > > beneath the chain according to the alternation of a
>>>> representation and
>>>> > an
>>>> > > exclusion - then what is there to stop us from seeing in the
>>>> restored
>>>> > > relation of the zero to the series of numbers the most elementary
>>>> > > articulation of the subject's relation to the signifying chain?
>>>> > >
>>>> > > The impossible object, which the discourse of logic summons as
>>>> the
>>>> > > not-identical with itself and then rejects as the pure negative,
>>>> which
>>>> > it
>>>> > > summons and rejects in order to constitute itself as that which
>>>> it is,
>>>> > > which
>>>> > > it summons and rejects wanting to know nothing of it, we name
>>>> this
>>>> > object,
>>>> > > in so far as it functions as the excess which operates in the
>>>> series of
>>>> > > numbers, the subject.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Its exclusion from the discourse which internally it intimates is
>>>> > suture.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > If we now determine the trail as the signifier, and ascribe to
>>>> the
>>>> > number
>>>> > > the position of signified, the relation of lack to the trait
>>>> should be
>>>> > > considered as the logic of the signifier.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > *Relation of Subject and Signifier*
>>>> > >
>>>> > > In effect, what in Lacanian algebra is called the relation of the
>>>> > subject
>>>> > > to
>>>> > > the field of the Other (as the locus of truth) can be identified
>>>> with
>>>> > the
>>>> > > relation which the zero entertains with the identity of the
>>>> unique as
>>>> > the
>>>> > > support of truth. This relation, in so far as it is matrical,
>>>> cannot be
>>>> > > integrated into any definition of objectivity - this being the
>>>> doctrine
>>>> > of
>>>> > > Lacan. The engendering of the zero. from this not-identical with
>>>> itself
>>>> > > under which no thing of the world falls, illustrates this to you.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > What constitutes this relation as the matrix of the chain must be
>>>> > isolated
>>>> > > in the implication which makes the determinant of ( exclusion of
>>>> the
>>>> > > subject
>>>> > > outside the field of the Other its representation in that field
>>>> in the
>>>> > > form
>>>> > > of the one of the unique. one of distinctive unity, which is
>>>> called
>>>> > > "unary"
>>>> > > by Lacan. In algebra, this exclusion is marked by the bar which
>>>> strikes
>>>> > > the
>>>> > > S of the subject in from of the capital A, and which is displaced
>>>> by the
>>>> > > identity of the subject onto the A, according to the fundamental
>>>> > exchange
>>>> > > of
>>>> > > the logic of the signifier, a displacement whose effect is the
>>>> emergence
>>>> > > of
>>>> > > signification signified to the subject. Untouched by the exchange
>>>> of the
>>>> > > bar, this exteriority of the subject to the Other is maintained,
>>>> which
>>>> > > institutes the unconscious.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > For: - if it is clear that the tripartition which divides (1) the
>>>> > > signified-to-the-subject, (2) the signifying chain whose radical
>>>> > alterity
>>>> > > in
>>>> > > relation to the subject cuts off the subject from its field, and
>>>> finally
>>>> > > (3)
>>>> > > the external field of this reject, cannot be covered by the
>>>> linguistic
>>>> > > dichotomy of signified and signifier; - if the consciousness of
>>>> the
>>>> > > subject
>>>> > > is to be situated on the level of the effects of signification,
>>>> > governed,
>>>> > > so
>>>> > > much so that they could even be called its reflections, by the
>>>> > repetition
>>>> > > of
>>>> > > the signifier: - if repetition itself is produced by the
>>>> vanishing of
>>>> > the
>>>> > > subject and its passage as lack - then only the unconscious can
>>>> name the
>>>> > > progression which constitutes the chain in the order of thought.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > On the level of this constitution, the definition of the subject
>>>> comes
>>>> > > down
>>>> > > to the possibility o/ one signifier more.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Is it not ultimately to this function of excess that can be
>>>> referred the
>>>> > > power of thematisation, which Dedekind assigns to the subject in
>>>> order
>>>> > to
>>>> > > give to set theory its theorem of existence? The possibility of
>>>> > existence
>>>> > > of
>>>> > > an enumerable infinity can be explained by this, that "from the
>>>> moment
>>>> > > that
>>>> > > one proposition is true, 1 can always produce a second, that is,
>>>> that
>>>> > the
>>>> > > first is true and so on to infinity".
>>>> > > [7]
>>>> > >
>>>> > > In order to ensure that this recourse to the subject as the
>>>> founder of
>>>> > > iteration is not a recourse to psychology, we simply substitute
>>>> for
>>>> > > thematisation the representation of the subject (as signifier)
>>>> which
>>>> > > excludes consciousness because it is not effected for someone,
>>>> but, in
>>>> > the
>>>> > > chain, in the field of truth, for the signifier which precedes
>>>> it. When
>>>> > > Lacan faces the definition of the sign as that which represents
>>>> > something
>>>> > > for someone, with that of the signifier as that which represents
>>>> the
>>>> > > subject
>>>> > > for another signifier. he is stressing that in so far as the
>>>> signifying
>>>> > > chain is concerned, it is on the level of its effects and not of
>>>> its
>>>> > cause
>>>> > > that consciousness is to be situated. The insertion of the
>>>> subject into
>>>> > > the
>>>> > > chain is representation, necessarily correlative to an exclusion
>>>> which
>>>> > is
>>>> > > a
>>>> > > vanishing.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > If now we were to try and develop in time the relation which
>>>> engenders
>>>> > and
>>>> > > supports the signifying chain, we would have to take into account
>>>> the
>>>> > fact
>>>> > > that temporal succession is under the dependency of the linearity
>>>> of the
>>>> > > chain. The time of engendering can only be circular - which is
>>>> why both
>>>> > > these propositions are true at one and the same time. that
>>>> subject is
>>>> > > anterior to signifier and that signifier is anterior to subject -
>>>> but
>>>> > only
>>>> > > appears as such after the introduction of the signifier. The
>>>> retroaction
>>>> > > consists essentially of this: the birth of linear time. We must
>>>> hold
>>>> > > together the definitions which make the subject the effect of the
>>>> > > signifier
>>>> > > and the signifier the representative of the subject: it is a
>>>> circular.
>>>> > > though non-reciprocal, relation.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > By crossing logical discourse at its point of least resistance,
>>>> that of
>>>> > > its
>>>> > > suture, you can see articulated the structure of the subject: as
>>>> a
>>>> > > "flickering in eclipses", like the movement which opens and
>>>> closes the
>>>> > > number, and delivers up the lack in the form of the 1 in order to
>>>> > abolish
>>>> > > it
>>>> > > in the successor.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > As for the +. you have understood the unprecedented function
>>>> which it
>>>> > > takes
>>>> > > on in the logic of the signifier (a sign, no longer of addition,
>>>> but of
>>>> > > that
>>>> > > summation of the subject in the field of the Other, which calls
>>>> for its
>>>> > > annulment). It remains to disarticulate it in order to separate
>>>> the
>>>> > unary
>>>> > > trait of emergence, and the bar of the reject: thereby making
>>>> manifest
>>>> > the
>>>> > > division of the subject which is the other name for its
>>>> alienation.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > It will be deduced from this that the signifying chain is
>>>> structure of
>>>> > the
>>>> > > structure.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > If structural causality (causality in the structure in so far as
>>>> the
>>>> > > subject
>>>> > > is implicated in it) is not an empty expression, it is from the
>>>> minimal
>>>> > > logic which I have developed here that it will find its status.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > We leave for another time the construction of its concept.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > *Notes:*
>>>> > >
>>>> > > [1] Edmund
>>>> > > Husserl, *L'origine de la g?ometrie*, translation and
>>>> introduction by
>>>> > > Jacques Derrida, PUF, 1962.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > [2] German
>>>> > > text with English translation published under the title *The
>>>> Foundations
>>>> > > of
>>>> > > Arithmetic*, Basil Blackwell, 1953.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > [3] Our
>>>> > > reading will not concern itself with any of Frege'g various
>>>> inflections
>>>> > of
>>>> > > his basic purpose, and will therefore keep outside the
>>>> thematisation of
>>>> > > the
>>>> > > difference of meaning and reference, as well as of the later
>>>> definition
>>>> > of
>>>> > > the concept in terms of predication, from which is deduced its
>>>> > > non-saturation.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > [4] Which
>>>> > > is
>>>> > > why we must say identity and not equality.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > [5] I leave
>>>> > > aside the commentary of paragraph 76 which gives the abstract
>>>> definition
>>>> > > of
>>>> > > contiguity.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > [6] And, at
>>>> > > another level, the impossibility of meta-language (cf by Jacques
>>>> > > Lacan, *Cahiers
>>>> > > pour 1'analyse*, No I, 1966).
>>>> > >
>>>> > > [7]
>>>> > > Dedekind,
>>>> > > quoted by Cavailles (*Philosophie math?mathique*, p 124, Hermann,
>>>> 1962).
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > ------------------------------
>>>> > >
>>>> > > This text was published in French in *Cahiers pour l'analyse* 1,
>>>> Winter
>>>> > > 1966, subsequently its English version translated by Jacqueline
>>>> Rose
>>>> > > appeared in *Screen* 18, Winter 1978.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > (c) lacan.com 1997/2006
>>>> > > Copyright Notice. Please respect the fact that this material in
>>>> > LACAN.COMis
>>>> > > copyright.
>>>> > > Available only through EBSCO Publishing. Inc.
>>>> > > It is made available here without charge for personal use only.
>>>> It may
>>>> > not
>>>> > > be stored, displayed, published, reproduced, or used for any
>>>> other
>>>> > > purpose.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > --
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>>>> > > 8400 Ostende
>>>> > > BELGIQUE
>>>> > > 0496 85 56 82
>>>> > >
>>>> > > nv site : www.qwarkpsy.eur.st/
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>>>> > >
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>>>> > > End of Lutecium-group Digest, Vol 25, Issue 34
>>>> > > **********************************************
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > Tassigny Frans
>>>> > Sint Fransiscusstraat 25
>>>> > 8400 Ostende
>>>> > BELGIQUE
>>>> > 0496 85 56 82
>>>> >
>>>> > nv site : www.qwarkpsy.eur.st/
>>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>>> > **********************************************
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Tassigny Frans
>>>> Sint Fransiscusstraat 25
>>>> 8400 Ostende
>>>> BELGIQUE
>>>> 0496 85 56 82
>>>>
>>>> nv site : www.qwarkpsy.eur.st/
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Tassigny Frans
>>> Sint Fransiscusstraat 25
>>> 8400 Ostende
>>> BELGIQUE
>>> 0496 85 56 82
>>>
>>> nv site : www.qwarkpsy.eur.st/
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>>
>>
> Ch?re Aline Dubois-Dugrenot,
> Seriez-vous mod?ratrice de la liste Lut?cium pour opposer, selon une
> r?thorique ironique, une fin de non-recevoir ? l'ouverture, certainement
> critiquable (Une certaine pointe de pros?lytisme, non d?nu?e d'enjeux?
> Une concurrence?), mais n?anmoins, il me semble, honn?te de Frans
> Tassigny de nous faire partager son point de vue et ses id?es?
> Certes, Lut?cium n'est pas une liste o? peut s'afficher tout et
> n'importe quoi, mais si vous ?tes " *plusieurs* ? penser que l'?nergie
> que vous ( Frans Tassigny ) d?ployez serait mieux accueillie sur une
> autre liste de discussion" - qui, d'abord?- , seriez-vous acoquin?e avec
> d'aucuns qui ne souhaitent plus qu'il participe aux d?bats? De quelle
> place vous pr?valez-vous pour ranger ce participant au placard? Frans
> lance un d?bat qui concerne tous les participants int?ress?s sur
> Lut?cium, pr?neriez-vous l'excommunication (Lacan en a su quelque chose,
> non?)? Si les jet?es de Frans ne vous int?ressent pas, laissez le au
> moins s'exprimer! Au nom de quelle ?thique, de quelle inscription,
> "*plusieurs qui pensent*", s'autoriseraient-ils ? conseiller ? Frans de
> "se faire voir ailleurs"?
> Je vous souhaite ? tous d'entrer dans la nouvelle ann?e avec plus de
> tol?rance, d'ouverture et d'humilit? que jamais, car nous le savons
> tous, il n'y a pas qu'une seule v?rit?, qu'un seul savoir.
> Je vous salue respectueusement. Denis Tabellion.
>
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>
>
Bonjour Kika
Heureux que vous répondiez en lieu et place de Aline Dubois-Dugrenot à
laquelle était adressé, de fait, mon message.
Me voilà renseigné, vous êtes donc deux au moins (plusieurs à
penser...). Je vais rester analytique en réponse au vôtre.
"Denis, te rappelles-tu comment a commencer cette "discussion"? et bien,
je me permets de reprendre un peu le "fil de l'histoire"... Franz
grognait car personne ne répondait à ces "provocations"...
Oui, je me souviens bien, mais il ne m'avait pas paru qu'elles fussent
si provocatrices que celà...
voilà, c'est tout, car il se donne la peine de provoquer des gens qui
sont des professionnels de l'écoute... c'est toujours un bon
entrainnement, même s'il y a des moments un plus "aigus" comme Yann le
prouve. en tout cas, s'ils ont quelque chose à dire, qu'ils le disent,
mais nous savons maintenant qu'il y a là beacoup plus de sinthome que
tout autre chose. d'acc?
Que Yann et Frans, à travers leurs écritures et leurs dires, montrent
"qu'il y a du sinthome", n'est en tout cas pas pire que ce que Lacan
fait concernant l'écrit d'un Joyce, ou la lecture que je ferais de la
votre propre, si j'en avais le désir!
et si ce qu'ils disent te plait, et bien bon appétit, car c'est ça le
plus-jouir: "tout ce qu'on a à mettrre sous la dent". ?
Là, on le voit poindre, le "sinthome" dont vous parlez si bien! Ah, non!
Denis, voilà que ton écriture baisse le voile sur le sinthome tien!
Aurai-je fait croire dans ma réponse que les dires de Frans et Yann sont
tout ce que j'ai à me mettre sous la dent? Désolé...
moi ça me fait chier, je trouve pauvre et totalment dépassé. et en plus
on se demande s'ils ont jamais lu Lacan. alors je sens qu'il me fait
prendre mon temps car je ne suis pas psychanalyste et ce qu'il dit ne
m'intéresse pas du tout: le temps est la première castration, non? enfin
à tous une tr?s bonne nouvelle année!"
Et si cela vous "fait chier" et que vous sentez que ça "vous fait
prendre (perdre?) votre temps", un conseil - quoi qu'en toute orthodoxie
je sois tenu à la règle d'abstinence - dès que vous voyez le nom abhorré
de Frans Tassigny, ne lisez pas, je vous en prie, vous y risqueriez
l'expression de quelque processus hystérique dont vous seule avez le secret!
Mais trève de balivernes, en quoi estimez-vous, aux termes de votre
dernière question, que le temps est la première castration? Oui?
Bien à vous. Denis.
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